i commented on the approachability of the devuan team recently, and it was mostly negative. and then theres the forum-- i covered that too.
gitlab and the mailing lists are going to get mixed reviews-- i think gitlab is a really excellent idea-- host your own web-based git interface without hoping that some giant corporation wont purchase github someday. the implementation is awful, but thats probably 90% git-is-git and 10% really stupid ajax. compare that to discourse: 10% good idea, 50% really stupid ajax and 40% stupid layout.
irc stays dead, so you can read the logs with a stupid bloated ajaxy reader. but the same guys that ask you to take it elsewhere for being off-topic are just as off-topic themselves, with the worst offenders (i dont have a double standard about this-- a lively community is better than a log, but a cabal of chatters and a cadre of peons sent off to #debianfork might as well not bother with #devuan) constantly spamming the channel with a bot no one but one person sets up to abuse everyone with-- and hes a complete set of jacka**es when called out.
between the stupid forum i cant complain about, a mailing list i cant follow because its too busy (no, thats actually fine-- i used to follow it about 90% of the total) and an intolerable irc channel, it would be really nice to get the ajax out of gitlab. but i suppose thats what the command line is for.
im sorry, i did have a point here. i think devuan is a great distro, but the above has convinced me to limit my involvement with the devuan community. its just POINTLESS to try-- and if im not trying, im not staying up on it, im not providing support to devuan users, i dont even know what devuan is LIKE anymore-- im using refracta these days (and my own remaster of that.)
but i dont blame the devs for this-- their isolation was legitimate and caused by the absolutely endless sjw-like abuse from debians systemd fans-- who to this day smear the devs for the actions of other parties.
the devuan community (apart from anyone here i mean) is clearly something i wont be a part of, however. as much as im a fan of steve litt, and as much as i would love to thank devuan for all it does, i thought i might be part of a community like when debian first started.
i dunno if thats going to happen for anyone, but it didnt happen (and wont likely happen) for me. im done there-- and where i agree with other (also negative) posts on this subject is there are no signs of change for the better on that front.
thank you for reminding me that its not just me that notices. regarding the little group of fans forming there-- well, its just too bad. ive moved on but i wont lie about a slightly bitter taste. theres already some toxic cabal bs forming there-- perhaps it will improve, perhaps it will go the other way. i know jono bacon isnt the solution, and neither is a code of conduct. the solution is better people. well short of that, a warning against trying to force it:
http://slated.org/respect_freedom_not_pragmatism i wouldnt even be talking about this, but i dont want anyone to assume that this is about the devs. they really have it tough enough as it is, and theres next to nothing i can do to help them with this issue. i dont even want to anymore, its too annoying and its really not their fault.
the devs not only have more important things to do than build a community-- they hopefully always will. its up to other people to build that community, and theyre doing a really sh** job so far. so sh** that its actually the one thing i think could limit devuans success-- more than secure boot, more than systemd trolls, more than fud about the technical ambitions, the community just really sucks. good luck to them.