From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 1 12:12:56 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA19640 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:12:54 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA21855 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:15:57 -0600 Received: from grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (grolsch.cs.ubc.ca [142.103.6.9]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA21849 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:15:53 -0600 Received: from cascade (cascade.cs.ubc.ca [142.103.4.7]) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA01945 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:11:57 -0800 Received: (bobl@localhost) by cascade (SMI-8.6/8.6.12) id KAA00041 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:11:55 -0800 From: "Bob Lewis" Message-Id: <9604011011.ZM39@cascade.cs.ubc.ca> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 10:11:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.1 10apr95) To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: PNP Project Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Forgive me if this comment is old-hat. I'm new to this list. Let me direct the attention of those of you who are interested in wavelet image compression to our "Wavelets at Imager" page at UBC: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/nest/imager/contributions/bobl/wvlt/top.html The page gives directions for obtaining the source to the "wvlt" package, a fairly simple-minded implementation of some useful wavelet routines. It supports over a dozen different wavelets and, most importantly for this group, includes a demo program to show the effect of compression on a PPM image. (PNG support is on my list of things to do!) Note that it does *not* provide a compressed file format -- it only shows the result of compression. The package is in the public domain. For those interested in knowing more about wavelets, there are also SIGGRAPH course notes available from that page. - Bob Lewis bobl@cs.ubc.ca ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 1 15:01:51 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA21669 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:01:49 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA25348 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:03:57 -0600 Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id PAA25343 for ; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:03:52 -0600 Received: from [199.171.191.21] by covina.lightside.com with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0u3qSu-0004J1C; Mon, 1 Apr 96 12:44 PST Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 12:43:17 -0800 To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu From: jimk@mathtype.com (Jim King) Subject: Re: proposed chunks document Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List INET: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu >I've collected some of the various chunk proposals that we have been >kicking around into a single document, which I've put on swrinde. >Included are alIG, drNG/DrNG, faLS, fiNG, loGE/LoGE, spLT, xySC, zsCL. Looks pretty good at first glance. The only correction I'd make is in the aLIG chunk: Equations are usually lined up at the baseline rather than the middle. For an example of the use of "middle" I'd suggest the use of the concept of 'center of mass' rather than the physical middle aligning with the middle of the text, as was described by someone else in this group. Jim King jimk@mathtype.com =================================================================== Design Science, Inc. Sales: mtsales@mathtype.com 4028 Broadway Support: mtsupport@mathtype.com Long Beach, CA 90803 USA World Wide Web: voice: 310-433-0685 http://www.mathtype.com/mathtype/ fax: 310-433-6969 =================================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 2 10:42:02 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA29716 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:42:02 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA13073 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:45:06 -0600 Received: from dub-img-6.compuserve.com (dub-img-6.compuserve.com [198.4.9.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id KAA13063 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:45:01 -0600 Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA00432; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:41:00 -0500 Date: 02 Apr 96 11:39:12 EST From: Owen Mortensen To: ngf Subject: MIME TYPE -- Answer to: Procedure question Message-ID: Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Here's the difinitive answer on how to get a MIME type assigned. All we need to do is get in gear, release version 1.0 of the specification, put it in a "stable" place, and fill out the form as outlined. As soon as we're ready (i.e., gone over the wording of the disputable sections and released the 1.0 spec), I can re-submit the MIME application (and have our contact with ietf push for review. I'll submit my original application to this list in a separate message for all of us to review and comment on. Thanks, Owen ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Rich Petke, R.PETKE TO: Owen Mortensen, OJM DATE: 4/2/96 7:42 AM RE: Answer to: Procedure question Owen - Please get and complete the form indicated below. If the PNG spec is ready for publication we appear to have two ways to go: Either publish as an RFC (I can help with this) or put in a static place (like somewhere off of compuserve.com or similar). Let me know which way you want to go. Rich ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: Keith Moore, >INTERNET:moore@cs.utk.edu TO: Rich Petke, R.PETKE CC: Harald Alvestrand, INTERNET:HARALD.T.ALVESTRAND@UNINETT.NO Keith Moore, INTERNET:MOORE@CS.UTK.EDU DATE: 4/1/96 5:00 PM RE: Re: Procedure question Sender: moore@cs.utk.edu Received: from wilma.cs.utk.edu (WILMA.CS.UTK.EDU [128.169.94.141]) by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id QAA17935; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:29:57 -0500 Received: from LOCALHOST by wilma.cs.utk.edu with SMTP (cf v2.11c-UTK) id QAA07875; Mon, 1 Apr 1996 16:29:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199604012129.QAA07875@wilma.cs.utk.edu> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 X-URI: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~moore/ From: Keith Moore To: Rich Petke cc: Harald Alvestrand , Keith Moore Subject: Re: Procedure question In-reply-to: Your message of "29 Mar 1996 14:59:52 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 16:29:05 -0500 Sender: moore@cs.utk.edu > What's the process for registering a new MIME type? > > Specifics: The PNG image format is now being implemented by a number of > companies. Currently the MIME type "image/x-png" is being used and I > have been asked what has to be done to move to "image/png". The registration process is described in RFC 1590. Basically you need to fill out the registration template from appendix E of RFC 1521 and send it via email to ietf-types@uninett.no. (the process has changed since RFC 1521, but the template has not changed). something like: MIME type name: image MIME subtype name: png Required parameters: none Optional parameters: none Encoding considerations: Since png files contain arbitrary binary data, base64 content-transfer-encoding is recommended when PNG files are sent via MIME email. Security considerations: (include section 8.5 of the png spec) Published specification: (We need a stable reference to the specification. If we publish it as an RFC, that would do, or maybe you have a stable URL? A reference to the Internet-Draft isn't sufficient, as it will go away in September.) Keith Moore Applications Area Director ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 2 10:42:05 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA29721 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:42:03 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA13113 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:45:34 -0600 Received: from dub-img-6.compuserve.com (dub-img-6.compuserve.com [198.4.9.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id KAA13102 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:45:30 -0600 Received: by dub-img-6.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA00523; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:41:30 -0500 Date: 02 Apr 96 11:39:36 EST From: Owen Mortensen To: ngf Subject: MIME Registration Form Message-ID: Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Here's the MIME registration form for comment on the PNG-list: To: IANA@isi.edu Subject: Registration of new Media Type content-type/subtype Media Type name: image Media subtype name: png Required parameters: None Optional parameters: None Encoding considerations: base64 generally preferred Security considerations: None known: A PNG document is composed of a collection of explicitly typed "chunks". For each of the chunk types defined in (except for "gIFx"), the only effect associated with those chunks is to cause a portion of an image to be rendered on the recipient's display or printer. The gIFx chunk type is used to encapsulate Application Extension data, and some use of that data might present security risks, though no risks are known. Likewise, the security risks associated with future chunk types cannot be evaluated, particularly unregistered chunks. However, it is the intention of the PNG group to disallow "executable" data or other non-display related data to become registered chunks. The text chunks, tEXt and zTXt, contain data that is to be displayed in the form of comments, etc. Some operating systems might allow the display of textual data with embedded control characters to perform operations such as re-mapping of keys, creation of files, etc. For this reason, it is recommended that the text chunks be filtered for control characters before direct disply, or that they not be directly displayed. Published specification: WE NEED A PERMANENT HOME OF THE FINAL SPEC! (The published specification must be an Internet RFC or RFC-to-be if a new top-level type is being defined, and must be a publicly available specification in any case.) ( Of course, neither GIF nor JPEG exist as Internet RFCs and they are widely used image-types) Person & email address to contact for further information: Thomas Boutell, boutell@boutell.com Owen Mortensen, ojm@csi.compuserve.com ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 2 13:44:20 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA02414 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:44:19 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id NAA18552 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:47:37 -0600 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [165.90.138.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id NAA18545 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:47:26 -0600 Received: from web1.calweb.com (root@web1.calweb.com [165.90.138.10]) by mail.calweb.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA17552 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lcrocker@localhost) by web1.calweb.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA08924 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:43:09 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199604021943.LAA08924@web1.calweb.com> Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:43:08 -0800 (PST) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" In-Reply-To: from "Owen Mortensen" at Apr 2, 96 11:39:36 am Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > Published specification: WE NEED A PERMANENT HOME OF THE FINAL SPEC! Don't we still have the uunet mirror? Anything "impermanent" about swrinde.edu? You're certainly welcome to stick anything you like at Piclab for permanent storage, but I assume that an .edu, .gov, or even .net domain would be preferred over a .com for storing a standards document. ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 2 13:52:38 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA02466 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:52:37 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id NAA18736 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:56:22 -0600 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id NAA18731 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:56:18 -0600 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA02911 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 14:52:15 -0500 (EST) To: PNG List Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 2 Apr 1996 11:43:08 -0800 (PST) <199604021943.LAA08924@web1.calweb.com> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 14:52:15 -0500 Message-ID: <2909.828474735@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List >> Published specification: WE NEED A PERMANENT HOME OF THE FINAL SPEC! > > Don't we still have the uunet mirror? Yes, I should think the uunet archive would be permanent enough. It's interesting that Petke's message does not say that we have to have an RFC before applying for the MIME type... But anyway: I've been holding up another draft of the spec because (a) tax season is here, and I haven't had time to incorporate Dave M's edits of the gamma-related sections; (b) I've been hoping to get word of release of the deflate/zlib specs as RFCs, so that the dreaded word "draft" could be removed from those two references. That's really the only stuff left to do. Unless anyone comes up with more edits. Last chance to reread the spec, folks. regards, tom lane ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 2 15:31:37 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA05197 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:31:33 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id PAA29206 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:34:10 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id PAA29101 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 15:34:01 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 16:27:59 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604021627.aa19501@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List tom says: > But anyway: I've been holding up another draft of the spec because > (b) I've been hoping to get word > of release of the deflate/zlib specs as RFCs, so that the dreaded word > "draft" could be removed from those two references. The IETF seems to be caught up in April-Foolery right now. They managed to release 3 or 4 (I'm not sure, one of them might be legit) foolish RFC's yesterday. I sent them the new copyright notice but don't know what they think of it (I also asked what they thought of the PNG copyright). Chances are, if you get Dave's stuff merged in and we submit a new draft, it'll catch up with the zlib drafts; and, in the final iteration with the RFC editor, the cross-references can all be fixed up to refer to each other as RFC's. By the way, no one has responded to my request to have a look at the PostScript versions of the zlib spec with various viewers and printers, so all I know is how they look on an SGI screen (using ghostview) and QMS 2000 printer. Based on those observations, it is better not to use the "times" package. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 2 20:43:08 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA08138 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:43:08 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id UAA07561 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:46:36 -0600 Received: from v9001.ntu.ac.sg (v9001.ntu.ac.sg [155.69.1.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id UAA07215 for ; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:46:20 -0600 Received: from ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg by ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg (PMDF V5.0-6 #7636) id <01I33OF5XX9I971ZCO@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Wed, 03 Apr 1996 10:37:21 +0800 Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 10:37:21 +0800 From: "WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG)" Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Message-id: <01I33OF5XY7C971ZCO@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore X-VMS-To: IN%"png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GWILLEM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > > Published specification: WE NEED A PERMANENT HOME OF THE FINAL SPEC! > > Don't we still have the uunet mirror? Anything "impermanent" about > swrinde.edu? You're certainly welcome to stick anything you like > at Piclab for permanent storage, but I assume that an .edu, .gov, > or even .net domain would be preferred over a .com for storing a > standards document. ^^^ If I remember right ................. compuserve.com ... was mentioned as a "permanent site" ;-). Willem ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 3 09:46:58 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA13670 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:46:58 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA22455 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:48:42 -0600 Received: from arl-img-7.compuserve.com (arl-img-7.compuserve.com [198.4.7.7]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id JAA22366 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 09:48:36 -0600 Received: by arl-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id KAA28917; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:44:28 -0500 Date: 03 Apr 96 10:41:03 EST From: Owen Mortensen To: ngf , "\"Lee Daniel Crocker\"" Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form Message-ID: Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Lee wrote: >> Published specification: WE NEED A PERMANENT HOME OF THE FINAL SPEC! > >Don't we still have the uunet mirror? Anything "impermanent" about >swrinde.edu? I guess I should have made the operative word "FINAL" or maybe "RELEASED" instead of "PERMANENT". Tom Lane wrote: >It's interesting that Petke's message does not say that we have to have >an RFC before applying for the MIME type... Correct: GIF and JPEG do not have valid RFCs (The one for GIF says to use CompuServe GIF and gives a reference as to where to get the spec). >But anyway: I've been holding up another draft of the spec because >(a) tax season is here, and I haven't had time to incorporate Dave M's >edits of the gamma-related sections; (b) I've been hoping to get word >of release of the deflate/zlib specs as RFCs, so that the dreaded word >"draft" could be removed from those two references. Does the new gamma wording invalidate the old gamma wording such that PNG images(viewers?) written with the old gamma wording would be incompatible with the new gamma wording? If not, I think we need to publish the 1.0 specification and get on with the MIME registration. I think that PNG has been relatively stable for over a year now (March 1995, we said that the PNG specification was complete....). We haven't done anything that would kill the backward compatibility with version 0.9. Couldn't we also say that the deflate/zlib specifications are "released" specifications even though they're not RFCs? That specification has been stable at least as long as PNG has. Regards, Owen ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 3 12:23:42 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA15674 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:23:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA09107 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:27:17 -0600 Received: from grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (grolsch.cs.ubc.ca [142.103.6.9]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA09018 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:27:12 -0600 Received: from [198.162.38.159] (davem.home.cs.ubc.ca [198.162.38.159]) by grolsch.cs.ubc.ca (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA02331 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:22:58 -0800 X-Sender: davem@mail.cs.ubc.ca Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:23:45 -0800 To: PNG List From: davem@cs.ubc.ca (Dave Martindale) Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Owen writes: >Does the new gamma wording invalidate the old gamma wording such that PNG >images(viewers?) written with the old gamma wording would be incompatible >with the new gamma wording? The new gamma wording changes nothing at all in the mathematical meaning of the gAMA chunk, nor in the code required to read and write PNG images. All it does is change some of our recommendations for what to put *into* the gAMA chunk when the image comes from video sources, and elaborates a bit on why viewers might want to select different values of "viewing gamma" for different lighting conditions. And most of the changes in terms of bytes altered were just making the examples in all the explanatory material everywhere consistent with the new recommendations. People implementing code based on the new recommendations will write images with slightly more accurate gAMA values for video-sourced images, and may provide viewers that allow users to set viewing_gamma preferences based on room light levels. But these "new" encoders and decoders will interoperate with code written fully a year ago, because the image file itself has not changed at all. Having said all that, I'd prefer that the "new" gamma stuff get into the 1.0 version of the spec, because the explanations and recommendations are (I hope) more consistent and more accurate than the old ones, and the 1.0 document is what people will be referencing for years to come. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 3 12:58:13 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA16122 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:58:11 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id NAA23950 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:02:13 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id NAA23810 for ; Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:02:06 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 13:56:39 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: MIME Registration Form Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604031356.aa06925@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > > Does the new gamma wording invalidate the old gamma wording such that PNG > images(viewers?) written with the old gamma wording would be incompatible > with the new gamma wording? Definitely not. It only makes a different, more accurate recommendation, on what to use for the value of gamma in some cases. There's no change in how gamma is actually handled by PNG decoders, and the new wording does not introduce any incompatibility. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 4 16:54:24 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA02988 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:54:23 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id QAA12448 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:56:49 -0600 Received: from enel.ucalgary.ca (enel.ucalgary.ca [136.159.101.50]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id QAA12442 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 16:56:42 -0600 Received: from munet-d.enel by enel.ucalgary.ca (SMI-8.6/ENEL-5) id PAA27830; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:52:25 -0700 From: adilger@enel.ucalgary.ca (Andreas Dilger) Message-Id: <199604042252.PAA27830@enel.ucalgary.ca> Subject: PNG extension chunks To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu (PNG Graphics discussion) Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:52:24 -0700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Hello all, here are my opinions on the proposed chunks. I'm trying not to repeat arguments that were discussed earlier, but it has been a long time... As an aside, I noticed that the png-{implement,list}.9506 archives are not on swrinde. Are they missing, was this the hiatus from godzilli, or are they part of one of the other archives? For those that are at all interested in the extension chunk discussions, they begin in png-list.9509 (not in 9504, 9505, 9507, or 9508 as I had the pleasure of finding out) with Todd French's proposal which lead to faLS, and pCAL (now called zsCL). That said, there are some interesting things in the early archives that fell by the wayside over the past year... alIG: Do we need left/right and top/bottom? Is there a concrete example where these wouldn't (or shouldn't) just correspond to the edges of the image itself? The problem with having so many parameters is that most of them will have the default values anyways, and as a result be mostly useless. I agree with ??? that we shouldn't try to implement a typographic system. Under 'If the alIG chunk is not present' you should also mention that these values should be used when there isn't a value that the user/application needs to specify. drNG/DrNG: Do we need independent scalings for each of the color components? Glenn suggested this early on as just a logical extension, but I couldn't find any real request or support for it in the archives. It was added in and nobody ever commented on it, in contrast to the three separate scalings for pCAL/zsCL which were removed. Allowing only a single scaling for all the color components would also be more consistent with gAMA, and zsCL/pCAL. This isn't to say that we should limit drNG to grayscale images, but rather only allow a single scaling value for all three channels. Also, in your calculation of "ratio" and "output_sample" you should use "output_bit_depth" rather than just bit_depth, as this can be confused with the PNG file bit_depth, which is irrelevant here. faLS: I like it as it stands. fiNG: I like it as it stands. loGE/LoGE: There was some discussion in November about interactions between loGE (dLOG) at the time, and dRNG, and possible problems with having both in an image. Dave at one time suggested, and I think the same, that loGE should be incorporated into dRNG, using the same method as pCAL/zsCL. The argument against this was that it is too complex having log decoding if an application wants to use dRNG. However, I don't really see that this is a big obstacle, as you can use lookup tables to do the decoding. spLT: I dislike the example names for the chunks as being too long, as did Glenn in the Dec proposal for this chunk. I know that string comparison should work fine regardless of the length, but I would prefer a simpler format, like: "Alpha" - still contains alpha values (ie not composited against any background), "RGB" - indeterminate background for images without alpha?, "Black" - black background, "Gray" - gray background, "White Windows" - white background including the MS-Windows default palette colors. We don't have to be very specific about the color if we are quantizing and/or dithering anyways, and we don't need to specify the number of colors, as this can be determined from the chunk length. No point in storing palettes like 8-8-4-2 or 6-6-6, since a decoder can do bit truncation on the fly, and doesn't need a palette to tell it how. xySC: I thought the different dimensions for each direction idea was withdrawn by Lee in the end, and we couldn't find any other reasonable applications for multiple dimensions on the image? Also, wouldn't the x/y offset and scaling be possible with oFFs + sCAL if the units of oFFs were given in pixels and then converted to the sCAL units? zsCL: First of all, I would prefer this to be called zCAL or the original pCAL something similar so that there is a semantic link to sCAL, especially if we don't have xySC. We should also make the usual reservations that the equation types reserved for the PNG group are 0-127, and other types equations can use 128-255. Cheers, Andreas. -- Andreas Dilger University of Calgary \"If a man ate a pound of pasta and (403) 220-8792 Micronet Research Group \ a pound of antipasto, would they Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering \ cancel out, leaving him still http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ hungry?" -- Dogbert -- Andreas Dilger University of Calgary \"If a man ate a pound of pasta and (403) 220-8792 Micronet Research Group \ a pound of antipasto, would they Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering \ cancel out, leaving him still http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ hungry?" -- Dogbert ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 4 17:58:19 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA04150 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:58:18 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA13881 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:02:02 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id SAA13875 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:01:58 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 18:56:51 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604041856.aa06568@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > From: Andreas Dilger > Subject: PNG extension chunks > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:52:24 -0700 (MST) > xySC: > I thought the different dimensions for each direction idea was withdrawn > by Lee in the end, and we couldn't find any other reasonable applications > for multiple dimensions on the image? Also, wouldn't the x/y offset and > scaling be possible with oFFs + sCAL if the units of oFFs were given in > pixels and then converted to the sCAL units? No, oFFs tells where to put the image on the screen. xySC tells you how to label it, if you want to. Useful for so-called "streak" photos or "x-t diagrams". > zsCL: > First of all, I would prefer this to be called zCAL or the original pCAL > something similar so that there is a semantic link to sCAL, especially > if we don't have xySC. We should also make the usual reservations that > the equation types reserved for the PNG group are 0-127, and other types > equations can use 128-255. We got rid of "cal" for "calibration" which had a connotation of doing something to the pixel data. As the chunk stands now, it is only to provide information about the scale of the pixel data. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 4 18:36:53 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA04320 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:36:53 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA14765 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:40:47 -0600 Received: from enel.ucalgary.ca (enel.ucalgary.ca [136.159.101.50]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id SAA14757 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 18:40:42 -0600 Received: from munet-d.enel by enel.ucalgary.ca (SMI-8.6/ENEL-5) id RAA28406; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:36:23 -0700 From: adilger@enel.ucalgary.ca (Andreas Dilger) Message-Id: <199604050036.RAA28406@enel.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:36:22 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <9604041856.aa06568@THOR.ARL.MIL> from "Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB" at Apr 4, 96 06:56:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Glenn writes: > No, oFFs tells where to put the image on the screen. xySC tells you > how to label it, if you want to. Useful for so-called "streak" photos > or "x-t diagrams". The PNG extension document says about oFFs: "It can also be used to define the image's location with respect to a larger screen or **other application-specific coordinate system**" As I recall, Lee originally proposed the "streak" image concept, and then later regretted ever having done so. As it stands, I vote against the xySC chunk as being redundant. Regarding zSCL vs. pCAL or zCAL: > We got rid of "cal" for "calibration" which had a connotation of doing > something to the pixel data. As the chunk stands now, it is only to > provide information about the scale of the pixel data. Isn't this just the connotation we want? I realize that this chunk is only a comment and doesn't affect the display in any way, but doesn't this chunk "calibrate" the pixels to correspond to the physical values that they represent? Cheers, Andreas. -- Andreas Dilger University of Calgary \"If a man ate a pound of pasta and (403) 220-8792 Micronet Research Group \ a pound of antipasto, would they Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering \ cancel out, leaving him still http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ hungry?" -- Dogbert ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 4 19:28:35 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA04518 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:28:35 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id TAA15713 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:32:29 -0600 Received: from mail.phoenix.net (mail.phoenix.net [199.3.232.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id TAA15706 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:32:25 -0600 Received: from 199.3.232.2.phoenix.net (dial83.phoenix.net [205.241.121.97]) by mail.phoenix.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA07065 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:23:33 -0600 Message-Id: <199604050123.TAA07065@mail.phoenix.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Tim Wegner" To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 19:23:31 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Mosaic supports PNG Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.30) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Guess what, the latest macintosh version of Mosaic supports PNG. Check out http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/MacMosaic/Release-info/ features.html There's even a pointer to one of our PNG pages from this page. The PC version apparently does not support PNG yet. Would be good to hear from a Mac user how this works. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 4 20:36:40 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id UAA04739 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:36:40 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id UAA16910 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:40:30 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id UAA16901 for ; Thu, 4 Apr 1996 20:40:26 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 21:35:29 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604042135.aa07431@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > From: Andreas Dilger > Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 17:36:22 -0700 (MST) > Glenn writes: > > No, oFFs tells where to put the image on the screen. xySC tells you > > how to label it, if you want to. Useful for so-called "streak" photos > > or "x-t diagrams". > > The PNG extension document says about oFFs: > "It can also be used to define the image's location with respect to a > larger screen or **other application-specific coordinate system**" > > As I recall, Lee originally proposed the "streak" image concept, and > then later regretted ever having done so. As it stands, I vote against > the xySC chunk as being redundant. It's not redundant. oFFs says where to put the picture. xySC says how to label it. An app could make use of both. xySC is probably only of interest to sci-vis applications, along with faLS, loGE, zsCL, and maybe dRNG. The final destination of these chunks, as we discussed a while back, doesn't necessarily have to be the general-purpose PNG extensions document but could be a special sci-vis extensions document (just as the fRAc chunk definition already resides in some other document). > > Regarding zSCL vs. pCAL or zCAL: I'm reasonably happy with any name for this chunk. The only reason it's "zsCL" now is for symmetry with xySC. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 5 05:25:56 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id FAA07269 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 05:25:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id FAA22178 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 05:29:52 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id FAA22173 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 05:29:47 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 6:21:32 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604050621.aa10502@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > From: Andreas Dilger > Subject: PNG extension chunks > Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 15:52:24 -0700 (MST) > > drNG/DrNG: > Do we need independent scalings for each of the color components? Glenn > suggested this early on as just a logical extension, but I couldn't find > any real request or support for it in the archives. I'm sure it was discussed, in conjunction with the sBIT discussions. If you want to use drNG to correct for zero-filled scaling, you need separate scalings: sBIT 6 6 4 drNG 0 252 0 252 0 240 At the risk of making the decoding slightly more complex, we could allow the green and blue component fields to be omitted, and state that if they are omitted they shall obtain the same values as the red component data that is present. This might be worth while if the usual case is that all three components have the same min and max values. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 5 07:54:13 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA08138 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:54:12 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id HAA23063 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:57:49 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id HAA23058 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 07:57:45 -0600 Date: Fri, 5 Apr 96 8:52:35 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks (spLT) Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604050852.aa12166@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > From: Andreas Dilger > Subject: PNG extension chunks > spLT: > I dislike the example names for the chunks as being too long, as did > Glenn in the Dec proposal for this chunk. I know that string comparison > should work fine regardless of the length, but I would prefer a simpler > format, like: "Alpha" - still contains alpha values (ie not composited > against any background), "RGB" - indeterminate background for images > without alpha?, "Black" - black background, "Gray" - gray background, > "White Windows" - white background including the MS-Windows default > palette colors. We don't have to be very specific about the color if > we are quantizing and/or dithering anyways, and we don't need to specify > the number of colors, as this can be determined from the chunk length. In the discussions we weren't able to come up with any situation where the decoder couldn't make its decision on which palette to use just based on the palette length. The only real use I could see for the names is for the human user who is managing a library of palettes or who wants to display a menu of palettes from which to choose. I like the "Windows" example, but I would call it "Windows white background", and use that as an example that doesn't include the number of entries. > > No point in storing palettes like 8-8-4-2 or 6-6-6, since a decoder can > do bit truncation on the fly, and doesn't need a palette to tell it how. But an 8-8-4-2 or 6-6-6 palette isn't necessarily a color cube. Even if it actually is a cube, as in the example "rgba512 8-8-4-2 color cube", such an spLT would be useful to the human who wants to see how the image looks when displayed with that palette as compared to another one. If it turns out that the image looks just as good with a bit-truncated cube as with a special palette, then maybe the sPLT chunk needn't be put into the final PNG file. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 5 16:30:23 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA03186 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:30:22 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id QAA00294 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:33:54 -0600 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [165.90.138.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id QAA00246 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:32:51 -0600 Received: from web1.calweb.com (root@web1.calweb.com [165.90.138.10]) by mail.calweb.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06569 for ; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:27:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lcrocker@localhost) by web1.calweb.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA22637 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:28:20 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199604052228.OAA22637@web1.calweb.com> Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Fri, 5 Apr 1996 14:28:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Lee Daniel Crocker" In-Reply-To: <199604050036.RAA28406@enel.ucalgary.ca> from "Andreas Dilger" at Apr 4, 96 05:36:22 pm Organization: Piclab (http://www.piclab.com/) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > The PNG extension document says about oFFs: > "It can also be used to define the image's location with respect to a > larger screen or **other application-specific coordinate system**" > > As I recall, Lee originally proposed the "streak" image concept, and > then later regretted ever having done so. As it stands, I vote against > the xySC chunk as being redundant. I'm not even sure what that means, but I will clarify my understanding of oFFs and xySC: oFFs is a bit of a wart on the standard, though certainly not as dangerous to portability as dRNG, that I suggested as a concession to the present realities of publishing. Pictures in publications are often printed on devices different from those on which their text is rendered; machines that print sharp black text are not always good at color photographs, for example. Because of this, it is often necessary to remove an image from the context of the enclosing publication to print it separately. When that happens, you lose some information about its context, such as where it was placed on the page. This particular piece of information is rather benign, and so useful, that I felt adding it was a good idea, even though the image itself isn't really the right place for that info. The aLGN chunk is similar--information that doesn't really belong with the image itself but rather with its context. I'm not convinced that keeping it with the image would be that useful. I see no reason for xySC. It is so deeply application-specific that I cannot imagine it being useful to many different people as is, but that some applications will want even more specific extensions, which negates the value of making it public. So, if you need that kind of information about your image, write it in your own private chunk and be done with it. sCAL is simple and general-purpose enough that all kinds of remote-measurement and cartographic applications will find it useful as is. Its public nature will make it easy for image processing apps to deal with it correctly--for example rewriting it when resampling an image. As a guiding principle, I'd suggest that a chunk not be considered for public status unless there are 2 or 3 completely different applications that need it. Otherwise, keep it private and just register the name. ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 02:29:56 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA02571 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 02:29:55 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id CAA07064 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 02:33:23 -0600 Received: from enel.ucalgary.ca (enel.ucalgary.ca [136.159.101.50]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id CAA07059 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 02:33:15 -0600 Received: from munet-d.enel by enel.ucalgary.ca (SMI-8.6/ENEL-5) id BAA00798; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:28:53 -0700 From: adilger@enel.ucalgary.ca (Andreas Dilger) Message-Id: <199604060828.BAA00798@enel.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:28:52 -0700 (MST) In-Reply-To: <199604052228.OAA22637@web1.calweb.com> from "Lee Daniel Crocker" at Apr 5, 96 02:28:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Lee writes: > As a guiding principle, I'd suggest that a chunk not be considered for > public status unless there are 2 or 3 completely different applications > that need it. Otherwise, keep it private and just register the name. This is sort of a catch-22 situation though. If 2 or 3 apps need it, chances are they have already implemented private chunks that do this for them. To then propose a public chunk, which is probably different from all of those existsing chunks means that none of those applications will use it, choosing to stick with their own private version which is already in their files. While I can see the desire to not pollute the name space with redundant chunks, I can also see that nobody will even try to register potentially useful chunks if we never pass them into a public chunk. Look at the fALS chunk as an example. It was initially proposed in August of last year, and we still haven't made a decision on it. I'm sure there are enough potential scientific applications that could use such a thing. What I don't want is to have the same percieved rigidity as the IETF MIME types group which rarely allows new types to become official, and then the unofficial x-types become the de-facto standard. What we surely don't want is for an application to become widespread that is writing PNG files with private chunks in them. At one point we had the idea that there should be segregated extension chunk documents, so that there was a bunch of extension chunks specific to sci-vis apps, and chunks specific to medical imaging for instance (when we get such chunks). It would be made clear that normal decoders have no need to recognize these chunks, but they are made available as a proposed standard way of doing things to forestall lots of nearly identical private chunks. Cheers, Andreas. -- Andreas Dilger University of Calgary \"If a man ate a pound of pasta and (403) 220-8792 Micronet Research Group \ a pound of antipasto, would they Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering \ cancel out, leaving him still http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ hungry?" -- Dogbert ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 04:54:45 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id EAA03501 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 04:54:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id EAA08631 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 04:58:46 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id EAA08626 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 04:58:42 -0600 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 96 5:52:44 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604060552.aa00187@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Andreas wrote: > > At one point we had the idea that there should be segregated extension > chunk documents, so that there was a bunch of extension chunks specific > to sci-vis apps, and chunks specific to medical imaging for instance > (when we get such chunks). It would be made clear that normal decoders > have no need to recognize these chunks, but they are made available as > a proposed standard way of doing things to forestall lots of nearly > identical private chunks. Yes, that's about where we left it back in December. I've separated the sci-vis chunks out of the png-proposed-chunks document and reloaded the documents on swrinde's incoming directory. Keith, please move them to png-group/documents. 61977 Apr 6 05:42 png-proposed-chunks-0.960406-a4.ps 14765 Apr 6 05:42 png-proposed-chunks-0.960406.html 61965 Apr 6 05:42 png-proposed-chunks-0.960406.ps 15320 Apr 6 05:42 png-proposed-chunks-0.960406.txt 86647 Apr 6 05:44 png-scivis-chunks-0.960406-a4.ps 24265 Apr 6 05:44 png-scivis-chunks-0.960406.html 86639 Apr 6 05:44 png-scivis-chunks-0.960406.ps 26160 Apr 6 05:44 png-scivis-chunks-0.960406.txt The only changes in the chunk descriptions are: In drNG, allow the green and blue channel fields to be omitted if they are identical to the red channel data. In spLT, added "Windows white background" as an example name. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 05:14:40 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id FAA03821 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 05:14:38 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id FAA08840 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 05:18:47 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id FAA08835 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 05:18:44 -0600 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 96 6:12:53 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB cc: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604060612.aa00256@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 96 5:52:44 EST > From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB > Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks > > The only changes in the chunk descriptions are: > > In drNG, allow the green and blue channel fields to be omitted > if they are identical to the red channel data. > > In spLT, added "Windows white background" as an example name. I also added a statement that encoders writing the alIG chunk must supply all data fields, and should use the suggested values as defaults. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 06:44:42 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id GAA04695 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 06:44:42 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id GAA09433 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 06:48:51 -0600 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id GAA09427 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 06:48:45 -0600 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 96 7:41:39 EST From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG extension chunks Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604060741.aa00405@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > > alIG: > Do we need left/right and top/bottom? Is there a concrete example where > these wouldn't (or shouldn't) just correspond to the edges of the image > itself? hell.png, alpha_snakes.png, arl_logo.png I think most transparent images are going to be written with a certain amount of transparent frame beyond the edges of the "picture" so that they will look ok when displayed against their bkgd rather than composited against the screen. But when composited against the screen, you might want to slide them over and up so the edge of the "picture" is lined up properly. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 07:11:02 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA04784 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:11:00 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id HAA09625 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:15:18 -0600 Received: from v9001.ntu.ac.sg (v9001.ntu.ac.sg [155.69.1.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id HAA09619 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:15:11 -0600 Received: from ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg by ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg (PMDF V5.0-6 #7636) id <01I38HHG5ON8972MDR@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 06 Apr 1996 21:12:16 +0800 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 1996 21:12:16 +0800 From: "WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG)" Subject: Re: Mosaic supports PNG To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Message-id: <01I38HHG5PLI972MDR@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore X-VMS-To: IN%"png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GWILLEM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Tim wrote: > Guess what, the latest macintosh version of Mosaic supports PNG. > Check out > > http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/MacMosaic/Release-info/ > features.html > > There's even a pointer to one of our PNG pages from this page. > > The PC version apparently does not support PNG yet. Would be good to > hear from a Mac user how this works. > Any news for the Unix (Linux specifically) version? Willem ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 07:24:32 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA04813 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:24:31 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id HAA09699 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:28:47 -0600 Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id HAA09694 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:28:43 -0600 Received: from alum01.its.rpi.edu (alum01.its.rpi.edu [128.113.1.10]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id IAA10476; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:24:13 -0500 From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson Received: (randeg@localhost) by alum01.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id IAA27340; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:24:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 08:24:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199604061324.IAA27340@alum01.its.rpi.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Proposed hRUL chunk for web browsers Cc: randeg@rpi.edu Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Taxes all done, nothing better to do than invent new chunks... I propose the "hRUL" PNG chunk type for use by web browsers. Many web page authors like to use fancy GIF replacements for the
(horizontal rule). I usually use X-mosaic with large print and a wide screen, so these fancy rules look a little silly, not reaching all the way across. The hRUL chunk addresses this situation. hRUL horizontal rule contents: type (1 byte) 0 no trimming or extending 1 trimming or extending left edge allowed 2 trimming or extending right edge allowed 3 trimming or extending both edges symmetrically allowed This chunk would inform a browser that the image is being used as a horizontal rule, and provides guidance that would allow the browser to trim or extend the image to fit the margins. Extending would be done simply by replicating the leftmost or rightmost column of pixels, or both, to widen the image. Type "0" would simply inform the browser that the image is being used as a horizontal rule; whether that would actually be useful, I don't know. I just included it for completeness. ../randeg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 09:18:46 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA05271 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:18:45 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA10680 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:22:55 -0600 Received: from boutell.com (boutell.com [204.137.132.17]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id JAA10675 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:22:45 -0600 Received: by boutell.com id AA05627 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu); Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:22:37 -0800 From: Thomas Boutell Message-Id: <199604061522.AA05627@boutell.com> Subject: PNG user seeking clarification of spec To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 07:22:36 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Forwarded message: > From Dheeraj_at_CalSoft-ElNet@chemoil.com Sat Apr 6 03:03:10 1996 > From: Dheeraj_at_CalSoft-ElNet@chemoil.com > Date: Sat, 06 Apr 96 02:38:20 > Message-Id: <9603068287.AA828787100@uu2030.chemoil.com> > To: png-info@uunet.uu.net > Subject: Clarification > > > Hello, > > I am a software engineer in India . > Could you just help me by clarifying the following > doubt : > > 1. What is the order of signifiance of the bytes > in the interlaced png's IDAT ? > > 2. How is Gray Scale being dealt with ? > [The actual case : Trying to convert a sample > (8-bit)PNG into an 8 - bit DIB file . Formed an > 8 bit-depth color table in the DIB with all BGR > entries ranging from 0-255 . Then the exploded > data from IDAT are used as indexes into the color > table .] > > If you could , please , respond faster , I would > be very grateful > > Thanking you, > Sincerely > > Dheeraj V Remella > ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 09:56:44 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA05345 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 09:56:44 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA11042 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:00:51 -0600 Received: from siesta.cs.wustl.edu (siesta.cs.wustl.edu [128.252.165.3]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id KAA11037 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 10:00:48 -0600 Received: by siesta.cs.wustl.edu (5.x/ECL-A1.27) id AA21447; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:56:25 GMT Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:56:25 GMT From: amc@cs.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello) Message-Id: <9604061556.AA21447@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Proposed hRUL chunk for web browsers Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Glenn says: > I propose the "hRUL" PNG chunk type for use by web browsers. > > Extending would be done simply by replicating the leftmost or > rightmost column of pixels, or both, to widen the image. How useful would that be? Note that many graphic horizontal dividers are too complex to be extended by replicating one column of pixels. Also note that Netscape already allows images to be scaled to a percentage of the window width and/or height. Finally, does this sort of functionality belong at the level of the image encoding or at the level of the page description (HTML)? AMC ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 11:39:50 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA05668 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 11:39:49 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA12196 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 11:43:51 -0600 Received: from Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (starbase.NeoSoft.COM [198.64.6.26]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id LAA12191 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 11:43:43 -0600 Received: (from peter@localhost) by Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (8.7.4/8.7.4) id LAA02193 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 11:39:20 -0600 (CST) From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199604061739.LAA02193@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Subject: Re: Proposed hRUL chunk for web browsers To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 11:39:20 -0600 (CST) In-Reply-To: <199604061324.IAA27340@alum01.its.rpi.edu> from "Glenn Randers-Pehrson" at Apr 6, 96 08:24:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I think this belongs at the level of the markup language rather than at the level of the image format. ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 12:22:30 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA06192 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:22:29 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA12546 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:26:47 -0600 Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA12541 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:26:42 -0600 Received: from alum01.its.rpi.edu (alum01.its.rpi.edu [128.113.1.10]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id NAA28079; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:22:14 -0500 From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson Received: (randeg@localhost) by alum01.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id NAA58454; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:22:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 13:22:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199604061822.NAA58454@alum01.its.rpi.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: hRUL chunk Cc: randeg@rpi.edu Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 15:56:25 GMT > From: "Adam M. Costello" > Subject: Re: Proposed hRUL chunk for web browsers > Glenn says: > > > I propose the "hRUL" PNG chunk type for use by web browsers. > > > > Extending would be done simply by replicating the leftmost or > > rightmost column of pixels, or both, to widen the image. > > How useful would that be? Note that many graphic horizontal dividers > are too complex to be extended by replicating one column of pixels. Exactly. This chunk is to provide info to the browser to sort that out: type 0, too complex to be extended; type 1, right end is complex and left end is simple; etc. > Also note that Netscape already allows images to be scaled to a > percentage of the window width and/or height. [*] This would allow Netscape to clip instead, if that would be more appropriate according to the image author. > > Finally, does this sort of functionality belong at the level of the > image encoding or at the level of the page description (HTML)? The "functionality" belongs at the HTML level. The extensiblity of the image could be considered a property of the image. The actual implementation would probably be easier to do in the image decoding step rather than in the page assembly step. (Meaning more work for the libpng writer and less for the browser writer...) [*] yes, I've noticed some huge GIF's that get displayed 100 x 100 with Netscape, but fill the whole screen with X-Mosaic. Seems to me scaling huge images down to a nice size is a job better done by the page author than by the decoder. Browsers ought to be able to recognize that kind of situation when decoding interlaced PNGs and just forget about reading the last couple of passes when the image is being scaled down to less than half size. ../randeg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 6 12:37:07 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA06249 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:37:07 -0600 (CST) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA12663 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:41:23 -0600 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA12655 for ; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:41:18 -0600 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id MAA15198 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:36:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 12:36:06 -0600 (CST) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604061836.MAA15198@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Mosaic supports PNG Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List >> Guess what, the latest macintosh version of Mosaic supports PNG. > Any news for the Unix (Linux specifically) version? It has supported PNG since last summer. Still does. ??? Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sun Apr 7 21:08:30 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA15189 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:08:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id VAA29983 for png-list-outgoing; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:07:11 -0500 Received: from mail1.its.rpi.edu (mail1.its.rpi.edu [128.113.100.7]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id VAA29978 for ; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 21:07:07 -0500 Received: from alum01.its.rpi.edu (alum01.its.rpi.edu [128.113.1.10]) by mail1.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) with ESMTP id WAA19340; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:06:53 -0400 From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson Received: (randeg@localhost) by alum01.its.rpi.edu (8.6.9/8.6.4) id WAA23549; Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:06:54 -0400 Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 22:06:54 -0400 Message-Id: <199604080206.WAA23549@alum01.its.rpi.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: hrUL proposal Cc: randeg@rpi.edu Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List proposed hrUL chunk description, second draft, 7 April 1996: hrUL horizontal rule This chunk would inform a browser that the image was designed for use as a horizontal rule, and provides guidance that would allow the browser to trim or extend the image to fit the margins. At present, "horizontal rule" images are normally written to fit the default screen width of most graphical Web browsers. This will permit browsers to lengthen or shorten such images when the user has chosen to use a wider or narrower screen. Extending would be done simply by replicating the leftmost or rightmost block of pixels, or both, or the central block, as many times as necessary, to widen the image. A "block" has dimensions (period x height), where the values of "period" is supplied by the chunk data. The contents of the hrUL chunk are: type (1 byte) 0 no trimming or extending 1 trimming or extending left edge allowed 2 trimming or extending right edge allowed 3 trimming or extending both edges symmetrically allowed 4 trimming or extending by removal or replication of center block allowed period (1 byte) width of block of pixels to be removed or added, normally the width of one period of a repeating pattern. Must be non-zero. Type "0" simply informs the browser that the image was designed for use as a horizontal rule but does not provide any guidance as to how to widen or narrow it. If this chunk should happen to come into general use, then it would also permit more efficient design of this type of image by eliminating repetitious data (instead of transmitting an image containing a row of dozens of alpha-blended, anti-aliased smiley-faces, one could just transmit a PNG containing one such smiley-face image plus an hrUL chunk that tells the browser to duplicate it as many times as necessary). Only one instance of the hrUL chunk is permitted in a PNG stream. If present, it must appear before the first IDAT chunk. ../randeg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 9 02:27:39 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA29732 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:27:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id CAA03998 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:26:44 -0500 Received: from dns1.noc.best.net (dns1.noc.best.net [206.86.8.69]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id CAA03993 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 02:26:34 -0500 Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by dns1.noc.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id AAA11173 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:26:24 -0700 Received: from cpic (photodex.vip.best.com [205.149.166.237]) by shellx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id AAA00777 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:22:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 00:22:32 -0700 Message-Id: <199604090722.AAA00777@shellx.best.com> X-Sender: photodex@best.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: PNG List From: pschmidt@photodex.com (Paul Schmidt) Subject: Re: hrUL proposal Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List >proposed hrUL chunk description, second draft, 7 April 1996: > >hrUL horizontal rule > >This chunk would inform a browser that the image was designed for use as a >horizontal rule, and provides guidance that would allow the browser to >trim or extend the image to fit the margins. At present, "horizontal >rule" images are normally written to fit the default screen width of >most graphical Web browsers. This will permit browsers to lengthen >or shorten such images when the user has chosen to use a wider or >narrower screen. This strikes me as something that should be extended in HTML rather than embedded in the PNG file. These attributes are relevant to the document's display characteristics rather than the image iteself, similarly to italics, bold, background color, etc. Why wouldn't a web author want to be able to use any kind of file to do these things rather than just a PNG file? Best Regards, Paul Schmidt ---------------------------------------------------------- Photodex Corporation Service GO/Keyword E-Mail 1781 Barcelona Street AOL: Photodex Photodex Livermore, CA 94550 CIS: Photodex 74774,3635 (510)449-9079 Voice (510)449-3519 Fax i'net: pschmidt@photodex.com "I play with dots... WWW: http://www.photodex.com ...lots of dots." FTP: ftp.photodex.com ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 9 08:11:37 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA02078 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:11:36 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id IAA05458 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:11:22 -0500 Received: from jeeves.va.pubnix.com (jeeves.va.pubnix.com [199.170.214.66]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id IAA05453 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:11:18 -0500 Received: from garotte.va.pubnix.com by jeeves.va.pubnix.com with ESMTP id JAA17283; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:11:07 -0400 Received: from localhost by garotte.va.pubnix.com with SMTP id JAA00134; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:11:06 -0400 Message-Id: To: PNG List Subject: Re: hrUL proposal In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 09 Apr 1996 00:22:32 PDT." <199604090722.AAA00777@shellx.best.com> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 09:11:06 -0400 From: "Josh M. Osborne" Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In message <199604090722.AAA00777@shellx.best.com>, Paul Schmidt writes: >>proposed hrUL chunk description, second draft, 7 April 1996: >> >>hrUL horizontal rule [...how to extend/shorten an image & still have it look good...] >This strikes me as something that should be extended in HTML rather than >embedded in the PNG file. These attributes are relevant to the document's >display characteristics rather than the image iteself, similarly to italics, >bold, background color, etc. > >Why wouldn't a web author want to be able to use any kind of file to do >these things rather than just a PNG file? [...] On the other hand why wouldn't a PowerPoint(TM) user, or MS Word(TM?) user want a (resizable) horizontal rule. Or the designer of a user interface for that matter? It is definitly useful in more places then just HTML. The question is whether it is useful enough in those places to add "more stuff" to PNG, or "more stuff" to all those places. (oh, and I suppose if the usage has common requirements in all those places) (of corse I had something in mind like defining the end peices and repeatable part. A viewer supporting hrUL would remove anything that wasn't an end peice or repeating part, then repeat the repeating part until the image was as large as needed. Think about a rule with stripes across the centere peice. I suppose it should also have an axies for use in non HTML applications...) ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 9 08:12:06 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA02085 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:12:05 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id IAA05471 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:12:13 -0500 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id IAA05466 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:12:10 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 9:08:57 EDT From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: zlib/gzip/deflate Internet Drafts 04 Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604090908.aa05997@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I've uploaded draft-04 of the deflate, gzip, and zlib specs. No technical changes from previous versions. Uses "Times Roman" fonts instead of "Computer Modern Roman". Cleaned up some of the URL's in the references (changed "host:file" to "ftp://host/file" syntax) On swrinde, incoming, the files are draft-deutsch-*-spec-04.* and zdoc-*.html; Keith, please move them to png/documents/zlib (it would be best to move draft*, zdoc-index.html, zdoc-tx.html, and zdoc-rva.html right away, and move the rest of the zdoc*.html tomorrow, after the IETF shadows and PNG shadows are updated). On quest, incoming, the file is spec-04.tar.gz; Greg, please untar and install in the zlib directory, and update the links to "-04" (wait for the IETF shadows and PNG shadows to get updated). I hope all the files are OK as I'll be off the net from tomorrow through Tuesday. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 9 08:52:58 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA02385 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:52:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id IAA06313 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:53:04 -0500 Received: from v9000.ntu.ac.sg (v9000.ntu.ac.sg [155.69.1.1]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id IAA06308 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 08:52:49 -0500 Received: from ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg by ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg (PMDF V5.0-6 #7636) id <01I3CPOV1KPS95S8DE@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Tue, 09 Apr 1996 21:52:58 +0800 Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 21:52:58 +0800 From: "WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG)" Subject: Re: zlib/gzip/deflate Internet Drafts 04 To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Message-id: <01I3CPOV36KY95S8DE@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore X-VMS-To: IN%"png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GWILLEM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Hi Glenn, You asked couple of days ago if the (previous) deflate, zlib, etc. in their PS incarnation had the right form at for printing and viewing. I can confirm that my NeXT (using Display PostScript) had NO problems what soever with them. The same was true for the png-spec itself. Better job than M$ where at the same day I had to hack the PS files PowerPoint generated to get the %%Pages: comments in for proper viewing ;-). Willem ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 9 09:40:24 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA02986 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:40:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA06753 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:40:11 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id JAA06748 for ; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:40:08 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id JAA07911 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:39:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 09:39:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604091439.JAA07911@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: zlib/gzip/deflate Internet Drafts 04 Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > On quest, incoming, the file is spec-04.tar.gz; Greg, please > untar and install in the zlib directory, and update the links > to "-04" Done. > (wait for the IETF shadows and PNG shadows to get updated). I'll try to remember to update them, but I just discovered that I forgot to do so for the 02/03 update. Sigh. Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 10 17:33:45 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA21195 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:33:44 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA06376 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:33:31 -0500 Received: from udot.unify.com (udot.unify.com [199.2.144.1]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id RAA06359 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 17:33:24 -0500 Received: from unify.sac.unify.com ([199.2.147.74]) by udot.unify.com (8.6.10/8.6.10) with ESMTP id PAA26655 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:33:48 -0700 Received: from leent.sac.unify.com (leent.sac.unify.com [199.2.155.28]) by unify.sac.unify.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA27592 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:27:21 -0700 Received: by leent.sac.unify.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BB26F2.483514C0@leent.sac.unify.com>; Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:27:51 -0700 Message-ID: <01BB26F2.483514C0@leent.sac.unify.com> From: Lee Daniel Crocker To: "'PNG List'" Subject: Resizing hints (was hRUL) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 15:27:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List The proposed hRUL chunk is too narrowly focused, but I think the intent is useful. There are many occasions where an image is created at a particular size for good reasons, but will have to be displayed at a different size for equally good reasons. The Web page horizontal rule is a good example (but by no means the only one) of this. The most general method for resizing (resampling) is not always the best. Therefore, let us generalize the issue into a "resizing hints" chunk, called "rESZ" perhaps, that contains hints on how best to resize this particular image when needed. I cannot think of any more general way to categorize or describe resizing methods other than to simply enumerate them. As I see it, there are five hints needed: how to reduce (horizontally and vertically), how to enlarge (horizontally and vertically), and whether or not to maintain aspect. For the first two (reduction), I see the following list of suggested methods: (No Recommendation, Resample, Decimate, Clip Left, Clip Right, Clip Left&Right, Clip Center). For the second two (enlargement), I see the list: (No Recommendation, Resample [linear or higher-order interpol- ation], Tile, Interpolate [0th-order], Replicate Left, Replicate Right, Replicate Left&Right, Replicate center). This has the added benefit that tileable images can be labelled as such. For the fifth datum in the chunk (aspect recommendation), we can either say "Try to maintain aspect/don't try", or we could have something like a rational "aspect tolerance", or we could leave it out entirely and let the viewer make assumptions from the other hints. I'm not entirely satisfied with the last, because I can image some rule-type iamges that should be clipped down to a certain size, below which it would be better to resample and then clip, depending on the final aspect distortion. Imagine, for example, a horizontal rule stored at 4x100, extended by replication to 4x800 across a Web page. Perhaps at extremely high resolutions it would be better to resample up to 8x1000 or so to prevent the line from vanishing into a hairline. I'm inclined to specify a tolerance of some kind--perhaps on both ends of the equation--outside of which the image should be scaled up or down before proceeding with the other recommended methods. Ideas? ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 11 10:51:24 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA02610 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:51:24 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA16709 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:50:45 -0500 Received: from siesta.cs.wustl.edu (siesta.cs.wustl.edu [128.252.165.3]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id KAA16701 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 10:50:42 -0500 Received: by siesta.cs.wustl.edu (5.x/ECL-A1.27) id AA04656; Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:50:19 GMT Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 15:50:19 GMT From: amc@cs.wustl.edu (Adam M. Costello) Message-Id: <9604111550.AA04656@siesta.cs.wustl.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Resizing hints (was hRUL) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Lee says: > There are many occasions where an image is created at a particular > size for good reasons, but will have to be displayed at a different > size for equally good reasons. > > Therefore, let us generalize the issue into a "resizing hints" chunk, > called "rESZ" perhaps, that contains hints on how best to resize this > particular image when needed. Good call. > For the first two (reduction), I see the following list of suggested > methods: (No Recommendation, Resample, Decimate, Clip Left, Clip > Right, Clip Left&Right, Clip Center). I vaguely recall an old discussion about defining a rectangle which contained the essential part of the image. That idea suggests that we might want to have four limits on how far to clip in each direction before resorting to resampling (scaling). > For the second two (enlargement), I see the list: (No Recommendation, > Resample [linear or higher-order interpol- ation], Tile, Interpolate > [0th-order], Replicate Left, Replicate Right, Replicate Left&Right, > Replicate center). How about "replicate the stripe spanning rows/columns m through n"? As for aspect tolerance, how about minimum and maximum ratios? We should provide a way to specify infinity for the maximum, in case the aspect ratio is unimportant. I think it is likely that some combinations of hints will produce different results depending on whether the image is resized horizontally first, or vertically first. Perhaps the preferred order should be encoded in the chunk. AMC ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 13 09:14:37 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA02313 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 09:14:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA14732 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 09:14:55 -0500 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id JAA14727 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 09:14:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 10:13:19 EDT From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: [Harald.T.Alvestrand: Re: draft-deutsch-deflate/gzip/zlib-spec-04.txt, .ps] Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604131013.aa24428@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List ----- Forwarded message # 1: Message-Id: <199604121222.OAA13739@dale.uninett.no> From: Harald.T.Alvestrand@uninett.no To: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB Subject: Re: draft-deutsch-deflate/gzip/zlib-spec-04.txt, .ps Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 08:22:14 -0400 The IESG has approved these for publication, so they should be coming out as RFCs Real Soon Now. Have fun! Harald A ----- End of forwarded messages ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 13 11:08:27 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA02632 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 11:08:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA15503 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 11:08:48 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id LAA15497 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 11:08:44 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09805 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:08:09 -0400 (EDT) To: PNG List Subject: PNG spec status In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 13 Apr 96 10:13:19 EDT <9604131013.aa24428@THOR.ARL.MIL> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:08:08 -0400 Message-ID: <9803.829411688@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Glenn forwards: > Subject: Re: draft-deutsch-deflate/gzip/zlib-spec-04.txt, .ps > The IESG has approved these for publication, so they should be > coming out as RFCs Real Soon Now. Good news indeed. On other fronts, I have finished merging Dave Martindale's revisions to the gamma-related sections with what I'd already done in 0.96 (he was working from 0.94 or so). I've sent that to him for his approval; if anyone else wants to see it in advance of the final draft, let me know. The only other item on my to-do list for the final draft is to decide what to do about the media type situation. I think the consensus was to leave section 8.2 as it stands, publish the W3C spec and RFC that way, and then go get the media type registration. Anyone have a strong objection to that plan? regards, tom lane ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 13 12:04:21 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA02803 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:04:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA15824 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:04:35 -0500 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id MAA15819 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:04:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 96 13:01:33 EDT From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG spec status Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604131301.aa24896@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List tom asks: > The only other item on my to-do list for the final draft is to > decide what to do about the media type situation. I think the > consensus was to leave section 8.2 as it stands, publish the > W3C spec and RFC that way, and then go get the media type > registration. Anyone have a strong objection to that plan? I think that is the right way to go. In the references section, just refer to "RFC-19nn" and we can change them after we get the numbers from the RFC editor. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 13 12:21:32 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA02989 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:21:31 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA15990 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:21:44 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA15985 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:21:41 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id MAA27470 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:20:19 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:20:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604131720.MAA27470@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: PNG spec status Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In other news, what's the status of libpng? We're coming up on three months since the last release (and of zlib, too, for that matter). Is there progress, or should 0.88 be renamed to 1.0 and be done with it? The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of the latter... Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 13 22:04:39 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id WAA04772 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 22:04:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id WAA19743 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 22:04:52 -0500 Received: from mail.phoenix.net (mail.phoenix.net [199.3.232.20]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id WAA19737 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 22:04:44 -0500 Received: from 199.3.232.2.phoenix.net (dd29-192.compuserve.com [199.174.146.192]) by mail.phoenix.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA11495 for ; Sat, 13 Apr 1996 22:03:29 -0500 Message-Id: <199604140303.WAA11495@mail.phoenix.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Tim Wegner" To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 22:03:57 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: PNG spec status Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Greg wrote: > In other news, what's the status of libpng? We're coming up on three > months since the last release (and of zlib, too, for that matter). > Is there progress, or should 0.88 be renamed to 1.0 and be done with > it? The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of the latter... The last release of Zlib broke medium model support. I sent the fixes to Jean-loup, so hopefully they will appear in the next version. I should probably ask for a copy of Zlib before the next release so I can double-check the medium model support and make any correctiosn before release. This is not an academic exercise, since I finally have enough time to try to add PNG to Fractint. I'd hate to have to release the Fractint source with a hacked-up Zlib. I'm not being critical of the Zlib guys, I know they haven't fixed this sooner because they have other pressing concerns. I do hope Zlib and Libpng 1.0 support the medium model so all the hard work doesn't go for naught. Tim ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sun Apr 14 21:00:08 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA14045 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 1996 21:00:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id UAA29621 for png-list-outgoing; Sun, 14 Apr 1996 20:59:52 -0500 Received: from tb-server.redestb.es (tb-server.redestb.es [194.179.106.2]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id UAA29616 for ; Sun, 14 Apr 1996 20:59:43 -0500 Received: from kayama ([194.179.106.149]) by tb-server.redestb.es (post.office MTA v1.9.3 ID# 0-12342) with SMTP id AAA242 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 04:01:18 +0200 Message-ID: <3171AD74.59D4@redestb.es> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 03:59:16 +0200 From: "Juan Diego Gutierrez" X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: PNG mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Dear administrator, I'd like to join to your PNG mailing list. I am a software developer very interested in the graphics formats and I find PNG format very interesting, so... I don't want you to lose your time. Nothing more to say, except thank you very much. Looking forward to hear you, Juan-Diego Gutiérrez Gallardo ender@redestb.es ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 15 03:11:38 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id DAA16261 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 03:11:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id DAA03164 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 03:12:04 -0500 Received: from enel.ucalgary.ca (enel.ucalgary.ca [136.159.101.50]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id DAA03159 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 03:11:59 -0500 Received: from munet-d.enel by enel.ucalgary.ca (SMI-8.6/ENEL-5) id CAA09559; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 02:11:15 -0600 From: adilger@enel.ucalgary.ca (Andreas Dilger) Message-Id: <199604150811.CAA09559@enel.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: PNG spec status To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 02:11:14 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <199604131720.MAA27470@ellis.uchicago.edu> from "Cave Newt" at Apr 13, 96 12:20:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Greg writes: > Is there progress, or should 0.88 be renamed to 1.0 and be done with > it? The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of the latter... There are still a few notable omissions in libpng 0.88, namely lack of checking for valid chunk names, and checking for valid filters for each scanline. On top of this, there may be a problem with libpng or zlib implementation, which I have come across while running POV-Ray. I have been hesitant to bring it up earlier, since I'm still not 100% sure it isn't a POV-Ray problem, but I'm increasingly certain that it isn't. There are a number of files which are generated on my system at 9 bits/color + 9 bits alpha which are invalid. Oliver also had problems with images at 8 bits/color and no alpha. At first I thought the problem was one of invalid PNG row filter types, but it turns out that in all of the images there is noticable pixel error in the middle of a given scanline. As the PNG CRCs on the IDATs are correct, I'm more leaning towards a zlib problem, but I have no real way to investigate this. I will be contacting Jean-loup directly about this, but I fear that tracing the problem will be difficult. Cheers, Andreas. -- Andreas Dilger University of Calgary \"If a man ate a pound of pasta and (403) 220-8792 Micronet Research Group \ a pound of antipasto, would they Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering \ cancel out, leaving him still http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ hungry?" -- Dogbert ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 15 07:20:52 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA17440 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 07:20:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id HAA04915 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 07:21:28 -0500 Received: from hp89.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (hp89.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.9.41]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id HAA04910 for ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 07:20:50 -0500 Received: from hp62.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de by hp89.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/15.6) id AA201770771; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:19:32 +0200 Received: by hp62.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (1.37.109.15/15.6) id AA071290771; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:19:31 +0200 Date: Mon, 15 Apr 1996 14:19:30 +0200 (METDST) From: Alexander Lehmann To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG spec status In-Reply-To: <199604131720.MAA27470@ellis.uchicago.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Hello all, On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Cave Newt wrote: > In other news, what's the status of libpng? We're coming up on three > months since the last release (and of zlib, too, for that matter). > Is there progress, or should 0.88 be renamed to 1.0 and be done with > it? The more I think about it, the more I'm in favor of the latter... There are still some things to be fixed in libpng, e.g. the memory management for 16 bit Borland C. We need at least one more pre-1.0 revision before this thing can be released. bye, Alexander -- Alexander Lehmann, | "On the Internet, alex@hal.rhein-main.de (plain, MIME, NeXT) | nobody knows alexlehm@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (plain) | you're a dog." ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 16 17:44:58 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA14420 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:44:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id RAA01425 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:43:31 -0500 Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk (mercury.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id RAA01420 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:43:27 -0500 Received: from mint.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:42:27 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.ukc.ac.uk) by mint.ukc.ac.uk (4.1/UKC-2.14) id AA15777; Tue, 16 Apr 96 23:42:26 BST To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 23:42:25 +0100 Message-Id: <15776.829694545@mint.ukc.ac.uk> From: Dave Beckett Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List According to a news item on BrowserWatch (http://www.browserwatch.com/plugin49.html), the IRIX 6.2 CD comes with a Plug-In from SGI for Netscape [Navigator] 2.0S that supports PNG (image/x-png). Has anyone got this who can report how well it works? It would be nice to see an interlaced PNG read in a Netscape window! Dave ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 16 18:00:34 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA14525 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:00:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA01716 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:01:10 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id SAA01709 for ; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 18:01:07 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id RAA04326; Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:59:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 17:59:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604162259.RAA04326@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > According to a news item on BrowserWatch > (http://www.browserwatch.com/plugin49.html), the IRIX 6.2 CD comes > with a Plug-In from SGI for Netscape [Navigator] 2.0S that supports > PNG (image/x-png). Oooo, megacool. > Has anyone got this who can report how well it > works? It would be nice to see an interlaced PNG read in a Netscape > window! My wife works there, so she's going to try to dig out the appropriate Netscape + pngplug tomorrow and let me know. If she gets it set up OK, I'll go take a look muhself... Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 17 06:27:56 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id GAA19051 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:27:55 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id GAA08577 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:27:58 -0500 Received: from www47.inria.fr (www47.inria.fr [138.96.48.120]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id GAA08563 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 06:27:50 -0500 Received: by www47.inria.fr (8.6.13/8.6.12) id NAA17075; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:26:52 +0200 Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:26:52 +0200 From: Chris Lilley Message-Id: <199604171126.NAA17075@www47.inria.fr> To: PNG List Subject: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) In-Reply-To: <15776.829694545@mint.ukc.ac.uk> References: <15776.829694545@mint.ukc.ac.uk> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Dave Beckett writes: > According to a news item on BrowserWatch > (http://www.browserwatch.com/plugin49.html), the IRIX 6.2 CD comes > with a Plug-In from SGI for Netscape [Navigator] 2.0S that supports > PNG (image/x-png). Has anyone got this who can report how well it > works? It would be nice to see an interlaced PNG read in a Netscape > window! I am also interested in this since I will be recieving my Indigo2 in a few weeks - but it will be running Irix 5.3 (for AFS support) so I will not be able to use this plug-in. It would be much better however for netscape to support PNG natively as they now support GIF natively - across all platforms. AFAIK SGI is the only Unix platform with a plug-in API. A useful side effect of supporting PNG would be cross-platform support of x-gzip Content-encoding: which currently only works on Unix (and is done there by spawning a sub shell). PS I have moved jobs now... -- Chris Lilley, W3C [ http://www.w3.org/ ] http://www.w3.org/people/chris/ INRIA/W3C chris@w3.org 2004 Rt des Lucioles / BP 93 +33 93 65 79 87 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 17 09:13:12 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA20346 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:13:12 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA09745 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:12:12 -0500 Received: from jeeves.va.pubnix.com (jeeves.va.pubnix.com [199.170.214.66]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id JAA09740 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:12:08 -0500 Received: from garotte.va.pubnix.com by jeeves.va.pubnix.com with ESMTP id KAA08235; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:11:06 -0400 Received: from localhost by garotte.va.pubnix.com with SMTP id KAA23544; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:11:06 -0400 Message-Id: To: PNG List Subject: Re: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:26:52 +0200." <199604171126.NAA17075@www47.inria.fr> Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 10:11:06 -0400 From: "Josh M. Osborne" Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In message <199604171126.NAA17075@www47.inria.fr>, Chris Lilley writes: [...] >AFAIK SGI is the only Unix platform with a plug-in API. SGI IRIX, SunOS, Solaris 2.3, Solaris 2.4, DEC OSF/1, HP/UX (at least in 3.0PR1 (yes, a new numbering scheme) - available for at least a week and a half now... warning: it's *huge*) Which as far as I can tell are all the Unixes Netscape supports that have dlopen/dlsym (or a simmiliar way to dynamicly use shared libs), with the sole exception of BSDI 2.1. (which is too bad as BSDI happens to be the system I use) [...] ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 17 13:01:39 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA25730 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:01:38 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id NAA12085 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:02:22 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id NAA12080 for ; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:02:18 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id NAA09904 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:01:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 13:01:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604171801.NAA09904@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > SGI IRIX, SunOS, Solaris 2.3, Solaris 2.4, DEC OSF/1, HP/UX (at ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Only for SPARC, I believe. > Which as far as I can tell are all the Unixes Netscape supports > that have dlopen/dlsym (or a simmiliar way to dynamicly use shared > libs), with the sole exception of BSDI 2.1. (which is too bad as > BSDI happens to be the system I use) Also excepting Linux/ELF. But since the lusers won't switch to ELF and X11R6, I'm not holding my breath for Linux support. :-( Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Thu Apr 18 12:28:57 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA11251 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:28:56 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA27709 for png-list-outgoing; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:28:33 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA27702 for ; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:28:26 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id MAA03026 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:27:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 12:27:20 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604181727.MAA03026@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Chris Lilley writes: > Dave Beckett writes: > > > According to a news item on BrowserWatch > > (http://www.browserwatch.com/plugin49.html), the IRIX 6.2 CD comes > > with a Plug-In from SGI for Netscape [Navigator] 2.0S that supports > > PNG (image/x-png). Has anyone got this who can report how well it > > works? It would be nice to see an interlaced PNG read in a Netscape > > window! > I am also interested in this since I will be recieving my Indigo2 in a > few weeks - but it will be running Irix 5.3 (for AFS support) so I > will not be able to use this plug-in. I just tested it under 5.3, and what can I say? It's not bad for a first attempt, but it still pretty much sucks. (Big caveat: I haven't read the docs for it yet.) My primary beef is that it does absolutely nothing for inlined images. Everything on pngpics2.html, pngmisc.html and pngsuite.html shows up as broken images. It *is* capable of displaying individual images if you give them as the URL (i.e., ".../foo.png"), but it doesn't appear to do gamma-correction (rather surprising, considering who wrote it), and it definitely doesn't use the alpha channel properly--that is, all alpha images appear to be composited against black instead of the normal gray background. I'll go poking around and try to find out who wrote it and, ideally, a real URL to point at, but I'm not particularly hopeful. > It would be much better however for netscape to support PNG > natively as they now support GIF natively - across all platforms. Mais oui! > PS I have moved jobs now... Your old home page is still around (and doesn't seem to have been updated), and are you stil maintaining the MCC ftp site? Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 19 03:29:27 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id DAA18841 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 03:29:26 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id DAA19885 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 03:29:26 -0500 Received: from www47.inria.fr (www47.inria.fr [138.96.48.120]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id DAA19880 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 03:29:20 -0500 Received: by www47.inria.fr (8.6.13/8.6.12) id KAA22543; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:28:13 +0200 Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:28:13 +0200 From: Chris Lilley Message-Id: <199604190828.KAA22543@www47.inria.fr> To: PNG List Subject: Re: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) In-Reply-To: <199604181727.MAA03026@ellis.uchicago.edu> References: <199604181727.MAA03026@ellis.uchicago.edu> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Cave Newt writes: > [about the Irix PNG plug-in ] > I just tested it under 5.3, and what can I say? It's not bad for a > first attempt, but it still pretty much sucks. That is an axiomatic property of plug-ins ;-) > My primary beef is that it does absolutely nothing for inlined images. Of course not! As I have been saying on this list ever since the idea was first broached, plug-ins are a bad idea. They are Netscape specific, version specific, platform specific. So you need Netscape-specific tags to insert your plug-in media. A PNG plug-in achieves *nothing* towards getting displayed. > [me] > > It would be much better however for netscape to support PNG > > natively as they now support GIF natively - across all platforms. > > Mais oui! > Your old home page is still around (and doesn't seem to have been > updated), It will get a redirect to my new one, but now I have to contact some admin person about that rather than just editing the server config file and doing kill -1 ;-) things are much easier when you work there. > and are you stil maintaining the MCC ftp site? That will have to go, for similar reasons (but there is still the hensa uk site, which also does png-group). Due to a silent failure of the shadowing software, the mcc mirror was in any case not in step with swrinde and had not been for some months. Apart from stuff copied from incoming, and there was little of that as folks seemed to use swrinde exclusively. Since no-one had noticed (including myself, until Glenn pointed it out) I guess the site was little used anyway. On to better news - I have mail from Adobe telling me there will be native support for PNG in a future release of Adobe Photoshop. -- Chris Lilley, W3C [ http://www.w3.org/ ] http://www.w3.org/people/chris/ INRIA/W3C chris@w3.org 2004 Rt des Lucioles / BP 93 +33 93 65 79 87 06902 Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 19 04:08:09 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id EAA18995 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:08:08 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id EAA20166 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:07:35 -0500 Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk (mercury.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id EAA20161 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:07:31 -0500 Received: from mint.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:06:13 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.ukc.ac.uk) by mint.ukc.ac.uk (4.1/UKC-2.14) id AA03875; Fri, 19 Apr 96 10:06:11 BST To: PNG List Subject: UK PNG Archive Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 10:06:11 +0100 Message-Id: <3874.829904771@mint.ukc.ac.uk> From: Dave Beckett Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Just to remind UK and European listeners: I maintain a PNG archive site at HENSA Unix. It contains: * Mirrors of the public and group areas on swrinde * Mirrors of a few other sites which have example images. * The PNG test suite This is updated nightly and available at http://www.hensa.ac.uk/png/ and ftp://unix.hensa.ac.uk/pub/png/ Dave ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 19 08:59:52 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA21251 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:59:51 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id IAA22261 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:59:22 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id IAA22256 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:59:18 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id IAA14188 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:58:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 08:58:06 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604191358.IAA14188@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Netscape PNG (SGI IRIX) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I wrote: >> My primary beef is that it does absolutely nothing for inlined images. Chris wrote: > Of course not! As I have been saying on this list ever since the idea > was first broached, plug-ins are a bad idea. They are Netscape > specific, version specific, platform specific. I agree that they're a bad idea, but it does appear that the API is more-or-less portable, not only across Unixen but also to Wintel and maybe Mac. In other words, you might be able to write one piece of source code and just compile it everywhere, much the way Netscape it- self is. (This is just my impression from looking over the Unix API docs.) > So you need Netscape-specific tags to insert your plug-in > media. A PNG plug-in achieves *nothing* towards getting src="foo.png"> displayed. Are you completely certain of this? The docs that came with the SGI package claimed that one could create a plug-in that acted as a "protocol handler," or something like that. Since that's the same language I've heard used in the Java context when discussing inlined image formats, I was under the impression that you *could* do a "native-appearing" inlined PNG handler. > Since no-one had noticed (including myself, until Glenn pointed it > out) I guess the site was little used anyway. OK, I'll remove/modify the references to it. > On to better news - I have mail from Adobe telling me there will be > native support for PNG in a future release of Adobe Photoshop. Most excellent! Who'd'a ever thought... Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 24 18:17:08 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA13964 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:17:07 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA08116 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:18:24 -0500 Received: from provider.dyadel.planete.net ([194.150.11.1]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id SAA08109 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:18:16 -0500 Received: from [194.150.11.178] by dyadel.planete.net id 1940.wrk; Thu, 25 Apr 1996 00:12:42 +0100 Message-ID: <317F350D.237B@dyadel.planete.net> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 01:17:17 -0700 From: JFK X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: BMP2PNG X-URL: http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/PNG/pngmisc.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Have you ever seen a BMP to PNG converter ? Please tell me if you see one. Thanks. JFK ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 24 18:34:14 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA14019 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:34:14 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id SAA08306 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:35:38 -0500 Received: from llyene.jpl.nasa.gov (llyene.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.75.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id SAA08301 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 18:35:33 -0500 Received: from quest.jpl.nasa.gov (quest.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.75.43]) by llyene.jpl.nasa.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA06007 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:34:54 -0700 Received: by quest.jpl.nasa.gov (NX5.67f2/NX3.0S) id AA25549; Wed, 24 Apr 96 16:33:44 -0700 Message-Id: <9604242333.AA25549@quest.jpl.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) X-Image-Url: http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/mark-face.gif In-Reply-To: <317F350D.237B@dyadel.planete.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Mark Adler Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 16:33:42 -0700 To: PNG List Subject: Re: BMP2PNG References: <317F350D.237B@dyadel.planete.net> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List >> From: JFK Next we'll be getting mail from Elvis. mark ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 24 19:02:23 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA14172 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:02:22 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id TAA08565 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:03:51 -0500 Received: from llyene.jpl.nasa.gov (llyene.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.75.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id TAA08560 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 19:03:47 -0500 Received: from quest.jpl.nasa.gov (quest.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.75.43]) by llyene.jpl.nasa.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA06628; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:03:17 -0700 Received: by quest.jpl.nasa.gov (NX5.67f2/NX3.0S) id AA26164; Wed, 24 Apr 96 17:02:03 -0700 Message-Id: <9604250002.AA26164@quest.jpl.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) X-Image-Url: http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/mark-face.gif In-Reply-To: <317F350D.237B@dyadel.planete.net> X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Mark Adler Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 17:02:00 -0700 To: JFK@dyadel.planete.net Subject: Re: BMP2PNG Cc: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu References: <317F350D.237B@dyadel.planete.net> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List It takes a little effort get it all together and compiled, but the NetPBM tools plus the pnm/png source will give you what you want: ftp://ftp.x.org/R5contrib/netpbm-1mar1994.tar.gz ftp://swrinde.nde.swri.edu/pub/png/src/zlib-0.99.tar.gz ftp://swrinde.nde.swri.edu/pub/png/src/libpng-0.88.tar.gz ftp://swrinde.nde.swri.edu/pub/png/applications/pnmtopng-2.2.tar.gz (some assembly required, batteries not included) mark ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Wed Apr 24 21:33:21 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA14835 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:33:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id VAA10786 for png-list-outgoing; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:34:44 -0500 Received: from iguana.reptiles.org (iguana.reptiles.org [198.96.117.130]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id VAA10775 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 21:34:35 -0500 Received: by iguana.reptiles.org (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.5) id ; Wed, 24 Apr 96 22:32:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 22:32:27 -0400 (EDT) From: smar@reptiles.org (Smarasderagd) To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: BMP2PNG Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List It's worth noting that the bmptoppm supplied in the 1mar1994 release of netpbm doesn't work for 24-bit BMP images, and appears not to work for some lower-depth images. xli (a descendant of xloadimage) handles more kinds of BMP images than bmptoppm, but still seems to get the byte ordering wrong sometimes. xv also seems to do better, and can save in other formats. ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Fri Apr 26 21:30:33 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id VAA04842 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:30:33 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id VAA03384 for png-list-outgoing; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:31:26 -0500 Received: from virtual2.phoenix.net (virtual2.phoenix.net [207.43.3.8]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id VAA03379 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:31:21 -0500 Received: from 199.3.232.2.phoenix.net (dial109.phoenix.net [205.241.121.123]) by virtual2.phoenix.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13273 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:28:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199604270228.VAA13273@virtual2.phoenix.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Tim Wegner" To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 21:28:18 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Hamrick's viewprint review Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Check out http://www.stroud.com/95image.html#viewpro On this Web page, the highly-respected Stroud's Consumate Winsock web page, the top three Windows 95 graphics apps are PaintShop Pro, Thimbs Plus, and our own Group 42's WebImage. (These all support PNG.) These all got four and 1/2 stars. The next app is Hamrick's Vueprint Pro with four stars. The summary review says: Pros: Ton of features; six file types supported; thumbnail, screen saver, and slide show clients Cons: Lacks image previewing feature, screen capture utility, and support for PNG images (end quote) Too bad Ed doesn't support PNG! Tim ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 27 08:48:35 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA08832 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 08:48:35 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id IAA07976 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 08:48:56 -0500 Received: from mail.Clark.Net (mail.clark.net [168.143.0.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id IAA07971 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 08:48:51 -0500 Received: from glenc.clark.net (glenc.clark.net [168.143.4.56]) by mail.Clark.Net (8.7.3/8.6.5) with SMTP id JAA01436 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 09:46:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199604271346.JAA01436@mail.Clark.Net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Glen Chapman" To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 09:41:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Hamrick's viewprint review Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > the top three Windows 95 graphics apps are PaintShop Pro, > Thimbs Plus, and our own Group 42's WebImage. (These all support > PNG.) These all got four and 1/2 stars. FWIW Thumbs plus 95 only reads PNG's The write support isn't there yet (unless there is a Beta I haven't found) glen ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Sat Apr 27 12:17:59 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA09588 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:17:58 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA09370 for png-list-outgoing; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:18:43 -0500 Received: from virtual2.phoenix.net (virtual2.phoenix.net [207.43.3.8]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id MAA09365 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:18:40 -0500 Received: from 199.3.232.2.phoenix.net (dial30.phoenix.net [205.241.121.44]) by virtual2.phoenix.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA18607 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:15:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199604271715.MAA18607@virtual2.phoenix.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Tim Wegner" To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Sat, 27 Apr 1996 12:15:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Hamrick's viewprint review Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.31) Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Glen wrote: > FWIW Thumbs plus 95 only reads PNG's The write support isn't there > yet (unless there is a Beta I haven't found) According to the Thumb's plus web page, they do support reading and writing PNG (the web page still says "PiNG" ). The windows 95 version is available at: ftp://ftp.cerious.com/pub/cerious/thmpls32.EXE I haven't actually tested this yet. The Web page is at: http://www.cerious.com/ BTW Ed posted a public message on CompuServe saying he made a seven figure income from Vueprint last year, so lack of PNG support hasn't hurt his sales Last time he made a similar claim he said he had a six figure income. On a more serious note, I think it is a good sign that software reviewers are starting to make a note about lack of PNG support in applications. Wouldn't hurt to give Stroud some positive feedback. If you have a PC this is a great web page. It's at: http://www.stroud.com/ Tim ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 02:18:40 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id CAA01803 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 02:18:40 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id CAA29659 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 02:19:48 -0500 Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk (mercury.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id CAA29654 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 02:19:43 -0500 Received: from mint.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:12:59 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.ukc.ac.uk) by mint.ukc.ac.uk (4.1/UKC-2.14) id AA29502; Sun, 28 Apr 96 22:09:57 BST To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: PNG status report - help needed Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:09:56 +0100 Message-Id: <29501.830725796@mint.ukc.ac.uk> From: Dave Beckett Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I have volunteered to say some words about the current state of PNG on Developers Day at WWW5 in Paris next week but I could do with more info in some areas. Can people help fill in the blanks? * Browsers supporting PNG natively / well. My current list is: MS Internet Explorer 3.0; Unix NCSA Mosaic; Spry Mosaic; Arena plus Netscape via plug ins. * How is the IMT registration proceeding? This is presumably related to the state of the PNG Internet Draft / RFC submission. Is the latter in the IETF standards process? * MNG development seems to have ground to a halt. What can I say? * What does MNG actually stand for? I think it is Multiple Network Graphics or does MPNG have a meaning? I like the pronounciation of "ming", rhyming with "ping". Any other suggestions on what to say / demonstrate are welcome. I will show the 7 - layer interlacing working which I saw for the first time for real via the ACDSee graphics viewer (W95) and it is a pretty cool demo, as expected. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 03:07:31 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id DAA02124 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 03:07:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id DAA00224 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 03:09:21 -0500 Received: from iguana.reptiles.org (iguana.reptiles.org [198.96.117.130]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id DAA00219 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 03:09:14 -0500 Received: by iguana.reptiles.org (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.13 #30.5) id ; Mon, 29 Apr 96 04:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 04:07:06 -0400 (EDT) From: smar@reptiles.org (Smarasderagd) To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Chimera 2.0 supports PNG natively, but is still in development. Chimera 1.65 will handle PNG via its external decoding mechanism, using pngtopnm or something similar. The page for 1.65 is at http://www.unlv.edu/chimera. ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 07:17:21 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA04148 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 07:17:18 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id HAA01343 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 07:18:58 -0500 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id HAA01338 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 07:18:55 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 8:13:32 EDT From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604290813.aa16398@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > Subject: PNG status report - help needed > Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 22:09:56 +0100 > From: Dave Beckett > > I have volunteered to say some words about the current state of PNG > on Developers Day at WWW5 in Paris next week but I could do with more > info in some areas. Can people help fill in the blanks? > > * How is the IMT registration proceeding? This is presumably related > to the state of the PNG Internet Draft / RFC submission. Is the > latter in the IETF standards process? > The PNG spec is presently an Internet Draft. We will request that it be published as an Informational RFC, presumably shortly after the zlib RFC is released as an informational RFC. (The Internet-Draft to Informational RFC step is supposed to take two weeks, but our experience with zlib demonstrates that those two weeks are not necessarily consecutive ones... the first of the two weeks was the week of 22 Feb 96). ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 09:09:20 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA04897 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:09:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id JAA01962 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:10:46 -0500 Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (haven.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.3]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id JAA01957 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:10:43 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (roe2@ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.6.12/8.6.4) with ESMTP id JAA08777 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:08:24 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id JAA22599 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:08:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:08:45 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604291408.JAA22599@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > * Browsers supporting PNG natively / well. My current list is: > MS Internet Explorer 3.0; Unix NCSA Mosaic; Spry Mosaic; Arena plus > Netscape via plug ins. There are more on the PNG Browsers page, and I don't think you can consider Netscape+plugins to support PNG "well." You should mention Netscape, of course, but the mechanism is bogus and completely misses the point of having cross-platform, cross-browser image support (via IMG or FIG). I just posted to comp.infosystems.www.* asking why this is broken. Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 10:25:00 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA00748 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:24:59 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA02750 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:26:35 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (sss.pgh.pa.us [206.210.65.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id KAA02745 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:26:30 -0500 Received: from sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sss.sss.pgh.pa.us (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04848 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:24:15 -0400 (EDT) To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 29 Apr 96 8:13:32 EDT <9604290813.aa16398@THOR.ARL.MIL> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:24:15 -0400 Message-ID: <4846.830791455@sss.pgh.pa.us> From: Tom Lane Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List >> * How is the IMT registration proceeding? This is presumably related >> to the state of the PNG Internet Draft / RFC submission. Is the >> latter in the IETF standards process? > > The PNG spec is presently an Internet Draft. We will request that it > be published as an Informational RFC, presumably shortly after the > zlib RFC is released as an informational RFC. I plan to release a "final draft" of the spec just as soon as Dave Martindale gets back to me with an OK for the last round of changes to the gamma tutorial info. We also need to plug real RFC-number references in for the deflate and zlib specs, which can't happen until those drafts get promoted to RFCs. (Theoretically, that should've happened by now, but it hasn't.) As soon as all that is done, we can request publication of the PNG spec as an RFC, and we can also ask W3C to promote their draft PNG tech report to final status. I'm not too sure how long either process will take. The IMT people want a reference to a frozen, non-draft specification document before we can restart the IMT application. It's not clear if a W3C tech report would do as well as an RFC. I'm not holding my breath on any of this, but something like one to three months for all the bureaucratic gears to finish grinding is probably a reasonable estimate. regards, tom lane ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 10:25:54 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA00758 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:25:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id KAA02787 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:27:54 -0500 Received: from boutell.com (boutell.com [204.137.132.17]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id KAA02775 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:27:44 -0500 Received: by boutell.com id AA06728 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu); Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:27:52 -0700 From: Thomas Boutell Message-Id: <199604291527.AA06728@boutell.com> Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:27:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <29501.830725796@mint.ukc.ac.uk> from "Dave Beckett" at Apr 28, 96 10:09:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > > > I have volunteered to say some words about the current state of PNG > on Developers Day at WWW5 in Paris next week but I could do with more > info in some areas. Can people help fill in the blanks? > > * Browsers supporting PNG natively / well. My current list is: > MS Internet Explorer 3.0; Unix NCSA Mosaic; Spry Mosaic; Arena plus > Netscape via plug ins. Netscape's plug-ins really, really don't count. You can't use the tag? C'mon, how "plug in" is that? The mechanism is broken as designed and they surely know it. MS IE 3.0 is widely rumored to have PNG support; you might want to ask them what the current status is. I think they did mention this at their developer's conference, though, so they can hardly blame you for repeating it. -T ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 11:02:31 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA01225 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:02:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA03521 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:04:18 -0500 Received: from mercury.ukc.ac.uk (mercury.ukc.ac.uk [129.12.21.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id LAA03513 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:04:12 -0500 Received: from mint.ukc.ac.uk by mercury.ukc.ac.uk with SMTP (PP); Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:00:32 +0100 Received: from localhost (localhost.ukc.ac.uk) by mint.ukc.ac.uk (4.1/UKC-2.14) id AA07978; Mon, 29 Apr 96 17:00:30 BST To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 29 Apr 1996 08:27:52 PDT." <199604291527.AA06728@boutell.com> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:00:29 +0100 Message-Id: <7977.830793629@mint.ukc.ac.uk> From: Dave Beckett Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List I agree Netscape doesn't do PNG well but I feel obliged to mention it or someone else will ask why it doesn't have it. The _release version_ of MS Internet Explorer 3.0 will support PNG according to the documents on the MS WWW site. I expect that it will be a 'proper' version with incremental display. This is my current list of "supporting PNG well" browsers: Compuserve/Spry Mosaic 95; NCSA Mosaic for Mac/X; Microsoft Internet Explorer 3.0 (Win,W95,Mac); W3C Arena (Unix); AMosaic (Amiga); ANT Fresco (Acorn) "Well", should mean inline () and images via a link () as well as doing gamma correction and transparency. Incremental display is a bonus, since the appropriate libpng probably hasn't been around long enough to put it in the code. Dave ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 11:23:18 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA01512 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:23:17 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA03904 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:25:03 -0500 Received: from v9001.ntu.ac.sg (v9001.ntu.ac.sg [155.69.1.6]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id LAA03898 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:24:54 -0500 Received: from ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg by ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg (PMDF V5.0-6 #7636) id <01I44SO2MKCK9X4Q86@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 00:23:19 +0800 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 00:23:19 +0800 From: "WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG)" Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Message-id: <01I44SO2MLAE9X4Q86@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore X-VMS-To: IN%"png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GWILLEM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Dave wrote: > I will show the 7 - layer interlacing working which I saw for the first > time for real via the ACDSee graphics viewer (W95) and it is a pretty > cool demo, as expected. If you want a COOOOL demo of Adam-7 interlacing, you also can take a look at my PingPong PNG-viewer for NeXTstep, where I put in (as a gimmick) a interlacing demo in the so-called Information-menu. For fun I even made it an Adam-15 interlacing demo :-) I created that demo, by creating 15 TIFF-files that contain the individual frames. So if you just need a demo, you could put those images just in a slide-show. (Get PingPong from srwi and untar it. What are the right files will be clear soon. For this no need for a real NeXT.) Willem ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 11:39:16 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA01663 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:39:16 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA04074 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:40:50 -0500 Received: from enel.ucalgary.ca (enel.ucalgary.ca [136.159.101.50]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id LAA04069 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:40:46 -0500 Received: from munet-d.enel by enel.ucalgary.ca (SMI-8.6/ENEL-5) id KAA22130; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:38:37 -0600 From: adilger@enel.ucalgary.ca (Andreas Dilger) Message-Id: <199604291638.KAA22130@enel.ucalgary.ca> Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 10:38:36 -0600 (MDT) In-Reply-To: <7977.830793629@mint.ukc.ac.uk> from "Dave Beckett" at Apr 29, 96 05:00:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Dave writes: > The _release version_ of MS Internet Explorer 3.0 will support PNG > according to the documents on the MS WWW site. I expect that it will > be a 'proper' version with incremental display. I have also read that OmniWeb supports PNG natively in the 2.0 beta release. I would test it out here, but our NeXTStep is somewhat old and doesn't have a library necessary to run it. Willem, can you comment on this? Cheers, Andreas. -- Andreas Dilger University of Calgary \"If a man ate a pound of pasta and (403) 220-8792 Micronet Research Group \ a pound of antipasto, would they Dept of Electrical & Computer Engineering \ cancel out, leaving him still http://www-mddsp.enel.ucalgary.ca/People/adilger/ hungry?" -- Dogbert ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 11:53:54 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA01703 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:53:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id LAA04308 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:55:51 -0500 Received: from haven.uchicago.edu (haven.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.3]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id LAA04303 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:55:48 -0500 Received: from ellis.uchicago.edu (roe2@ellis.uchicago.edu [128.135.12.62]) by haven.uchicago.edu (8.6.12/8.6.4) with ESMTP id LAA21510; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:53:22 -0500 Received: (from roe2@localhost) by ellis.uchicago.edu (8.7.1/8.7.2) id LAA16668; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:53:43 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 11:53:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Cave Newt Message-Id: <199604291653.LAA16668@ellis.uchicago.edu> To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed Cc: mosaic-m@ncsa.uiuc.edu, mosaic-x@ncsa.uiuc.edu Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > The _release version_ of MS Internet Explorer 3.0 will support PNG > according to the documents on the MS WWW site. I expect that it will > be a 'proper' version with incremental display. It's hardly fair to nail Netscape for lousy PNG support when you include Microsoft's vapor-browser among your "supports PNG well" set. Mention them both, certainly, but don't list either of them as "good" yet. > "Well", should mean inline () and images via a link () as > well as doing gamma correction and transparency. Incremental display > is a bonus, since the appropriate libpng probably hasn't been around > long enough to put it in the code. Three months should be plenty of time for a non-commercial browser, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not sure all the current PNG-supporting browsers do gamma correction, particularly since libpng still doesn't do it right for all cases (I believe Willem or Alexander or somebody recently mentioned about 8-bit images). Btw, I just tried to test X Mosaic 2.7b4 on Willem's PngSuite, and it crashed and burned most spectacularly. Twice. Argh. Scott: URL is http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/PNG/pngsuite.html You and the other NCSA folks might want to make a copy of the HTML and grab the pngsuite archive from swrinde for testing. Apparently the Mac guys have been hitting the page pretty hard over the last few weeks, and there's no real need to exercise the net with hundreds of individual HTTP hits. (This is a general-purpose suggestion for anyone debugging WWW+PNG software, btw, not just the NCSA folks.) Greg ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 12:00:54 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA01763 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:00:53 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id MAA04374 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:02:51 -0500 Received: from thor.arl.mil (thor.arl.mil [128.63.9.21]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with SMTP id MAA04368 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 12:02:46 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Apr 96 12:56:53 EDT From: Glenn Randers-Pehrson ARL-WTD-TED-TIB To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed Organization: U.S. Army Research Laboratory, APG, MD Message-ID: <9604291256.aa25145@THOR.ARL.MIL> Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List In reply to the message > Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed > Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 17:00:29 +0100 > From: Dave Beckett > This is my current list of "supporting PNG well" browsers: > NCSA Mosaic for Mac/X; Mosaic for X (version 2.7b4 and earlier) doesn't seem to do transparency for inline PNGs. ../glennrp ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 16:57:00 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA10170 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:56:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id QAA10815 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:58:04 -0500 Received: from wugate.wustl.edu (wugate.wustl.edu [128.252.120.1]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id QAA10810 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:58:00 -0500 Received: from Starbase.NeoSoft.COM by wugate.wustl.edu (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id QAA03694 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:55:54 -0500 Received: (from peter@localhost) by Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (8.7.4/8.7.4) id QAA22231 for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:50:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Peter da Silva Message-Id: <199604292150.QAA22231@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 16:50:52 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <199604291527.AA06728@boutell.com> from "Thomas Boutell" at Apr 29, 96 08:27:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > MS IE 3.0 is widely rumored to have PNG support; Not surprising. MS IE is nothing but a bunch of plugins. Clever design actually, though it's not as open as they make out. ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Mon Apr 29 19:48:48 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id TAA13631 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:48:45 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id TAA13577 for png-list-outgoing; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:50:33 -0500 Received: from alpha.ntu.ac.sg (alpha.ntu.ac.sg [155.69.1.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id TAA13570 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 1996 19:50:26 -0500 Received: from ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg by ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg (PMDF V5.0-6 #7636) id <01I45AHICF4K9X4RGX@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> for png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:49:23 +0800 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 08:49:23 +0800 From: "WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG)" Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed To: png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Message-id: <01I45AHICG2E9X4RGX@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> Organization: Nanyang Technological University - Singapore X-VMS-To: IN%"png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu" X-VMS-Cc: GWILLEM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Andreas writes:Explorer 3.0 will support PNG > I have also read that OmniWeb supports PNG natively in the 2.0 beta release. > I would test it out here, but our NeXTStep is somewhat old and doesn't have > a library necessary to run it. Willem, can you comment on this? I didn't have a look at version 2. But as soon as I can find time, I will have a look at it and report on it. Although I should test it first before making a firm statement, I got the strong impression that NetSurfer (for NeXT) also supports PNG. I'll invest- gate that one as well. Willem ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 30 13:11:22 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA21696 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:11:20 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id NAA24818 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:12:08 -0500 Received: from hp89.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (hp89.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de [130.83.9.41]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id NAA24797 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 13:12:01 -0500 Received: from hp62.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de by hp89.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de with ESMTP ($Revision: 1.37.109.26 $/15.6) id AA104837783; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:09:44 +0200 Received: by hp62.rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (1.37.109.15/15.6) id AA132957783; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:09:43 +0200 Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:09:42 +0200 (METDST) From: Alexander Lehmann To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed In-Reply-To: <01I45AHICG2E9X4RGX@ntuvax.ntu.ac.sg> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List Hello all, On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, WILLEM VAN SCHAIK (INTERNET: GWILLEM@NTUVAX.NTU.AC.SG) wrote: > Andreas writes:Explorer 3.0 will support PNG > > > I have also read that OmniWeb supports PNG natively in the 2.0 beta release. > > I would test it out here, but our NeXTStep is somewhat old and doesn't have > > a library necessary to run it. Willem, can you comment on this? > > I didn't have a look at version 2. But as soon as I can find time, I will > have a look at it and report on it. The OmniWeb 2.0 distribution definitely contains something like a plugin for PNG. However, I haven't gotten around to testing it properly. There is a 2nd plug-in for xpm apparently. bye, Alexander -- Alexander Lehmann, | "On the Internet, alex@hal.rhein-main.de (plain, MIME, NeXT) | nobody knows alexlehm@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (plain) | you're a dog." ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body. From owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Tue Apr 30 14:27:05 1996 Received: from dworkin.wustl.edu (dworkin.wustl.edu [128.252.169.2]) by swrinde.nde.swri.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id OAA23045 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:27:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) id OAA27177 for png-list-outgoing; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:28:39 -0500 Received: from llyene.jpl.nasa.gov (llyene.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.75.10]) by dworkin.wustl.edu (8.6.10/8.6.6.yuck) with ESMTP id OAA27171 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 14:28:33 -0500 Received: from quest.jpl.nasa.gov (quest.jpl.nasa.gov [128.149.75.43]) by llyene.jpl.nasa.gov (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA06639 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 1996 12:26:41 -0700 Received: by quest.jpl.nasa.gov (NX5.67f2/NX3.0S) id AA20444; Tue, 30 Apr 96 12:25:31 -0700 Message-Id: <9604301925.AA20444@quest.jpl.nasa.gov> Content-Type: text/plain Mime-Version: 1.0 (NeXT Mail 3.3 v118.2) X-Image-Url: http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/mark-face.gif In-Reply-To: X-Nextstep-Mailer: Mail 3.3 (Enhance 1.3) Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.118.2) From: Mark Adler Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 12:25:28 -0700 To: PNG List Subject: Re: PNG status report - help needed References: Sender: owner-png-list@dworkin.wustl.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: PNG List > > I would test it out here, but our NeXTStep is somewhat old and doesn't have > > a library necessary to run it. Willem, can you comment on this? ... > The OmniWeb 2.0 distribution definitely contains something like a plugin > for PNG. However, I haven't gotten around to testing it properly. There is The home of the PNG pages, quest, is a NeXT. I use OmniWeb 2.0 and it does indeed support png quite nicely. Directly--no plugin. The test suite page all worked perfectly (http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/PNG/pngsuite.html), except of course for the "Illegal and/or corrupt PNG images". mark ------------------------------------------------------------ To find out more about the mailing list server, send mail to png-list-request@dworkin.wustl.edu with the word "help" (and nothing else) in the message body.